David Gowers ([info]dgowers) wrote,
@ 2007-04-16 15:44:00
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Worth reading! On value, meaning, and methods of education
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Pedagogic_Creed
by John Dewey (there should be an attribution in the article, but I haven't found it.)

I was writing on a related subject; that's not finished yet; but here's an interesting two quotes from the linked article:


* I believe that interests are the signs and symptoms of growing power. I believe that they represent dawning capacities. Accordingly the constant and careful observation of interests is of the utmost importance for the educator.

* I believe that these interests are to be observed as showing the state of development which the child has reached.

* I believe that the prophesy the stage upon which he is about to enter.

* I believe that only through the continual and sympathetic observation of childhood's interests can the adult enter into the child's life and see what it is ready for, and upon what material it could work most readily and fruitfully.

* I believe that these interests are neither to be humored nor repressed. To repress interest is to substitute the adult for the child, and so to weaken intellectual curiosity and alertness, to suppress initiative, and to deaden interest. To humor the interests is to substitute the transient for the permanent. The interest is always the sign of some power below; the important thing is to discover this power. To humor the interest is to fail to penetrate below the surface and its sure result is to substitute caprice and whim for genuine interest.





* I believe that the emotions are the reflex of actions.

* I believe that to endeavor to stimulate or arouse the emotions apart from their corresponding activities, is to introduce an unhealthy and morbid state of mind.

* I believe that if we can only secure right habits of action and thought, with reference to the good, the true, and the beautiful, the emotions will for the most part take care of themselves.

* I believe that next to deadness and dullness, formalism and routine, our education is threatened with no greater evil than sentimentalism.

* I believe that this sentimentalism is the necessary result of the attempt to divorce feeling from action.


These two quotes are ones I completely agree with. And I'd like to also mention that hysterical fits are also sentimentalism, although typically sentimentalism is considered as a more sedate over-expression (or pretentious expression) of emotion. To precisely cover both, sentimentalism is emotional slobbery.

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[info]rinku
2007-04-16 08:26 am UTC (link)
...

You do know Dewey is responsible for the public schools we have today, right? He's one of the most evil people in history! I don't see what you agree with these quotes for or how.

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[info]dgowers
2007-04-18 03:43 am UTC (link)
Why didn't that other reply nest with yours properly?.?
Anyway, I'm also being 'successively honest' which, after much agonizing, seems to be the only type(method?) of honesty that works for me: say what you really feel and think at the time, repeatedly, and allow cumulation to happen naturally for a while before integrating those sets of statements.
Otherwise I just tend to second, third, fourth, and fifth-guess myself. More sedate contemplative styles of choosing what to say don't mesh well with my personality (Introspection as I do things just destroys my concentration.)
It presents an accurate picture of my psyche and the things that occupy me at the time, and that seems more important to my wellbeing than saying things that are exactly correct (my method of dealing with obstacles, while often clever, is based on raw passion -- it gets in my way, I smash it.)

I also suspect we disagree on the following point - that 'I don't take drugs -- I *am* drugs' (Salvador Dali) is a good thing. It's one of my inspirations, certainly. People don't need a better imagination, just the ability to rotate it in 314159265.35897928 different directions as needed. Talking or seeming like a zen koan is good for encouraging such abilities.

That is all.

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hi!
[info]dgowers
2007-04-16 03:06 pm UTC (link)
Gotcha.

Well, I also don't know where you got that quote from; I remember you quoting him as saying essentially 'the purpose of schooling is to subjugate the individual to society'; I haven't found any quote to that effect when I looked for it.
What he says here seems quite different; In fact, he seems to advocate communication rather than dictation.

The only point that I notably disagree on is:

"
I believe that the only true education comes through the stimulation of the child's powers by the demands of the social situations in which he finds himself. Through these demands he is stimulated to act as a member of a unity, to emerge from his original narrowness of action and feeling and to conceive of himself from the standpoint of the welfare of the group to which he belongs. Through the responses which others make to his own activities he comes to know what these mean in social terms. The value which they have is reflected back into them. For instance, through the response which is made to the child's instinctive babblings the child comes to know what those babblings mean; they are transformed into articulate language and thus the child is introduced into the consolidated wealth of ideas and emotions which are now summed up in language.
"
If there is anything to object to, it's there in that point.

a) Of course personal development can occur alone - in some cases it must be alone. The converse also applies.
b) There is an ambiguity (to conceive of himself..). It should clearly specify this as an adding a other-selfimage to existing self-selfimage. It is quite plainly useful to know in general terms how you are perceived.
c) Social development is needed, unless you want nothing from others (most people in this category might be described as 'indescribably insane'). A learning gradient is needed (but this needn't be artificial -- just, the parents should provide appropriate exposure such that a child isn't required to learn excessive numbers of things within a short time. He exaggerates this -- the only situations I can think of that might qualify as overwhelming are ones involving mafia/yakuza/etc or royalty). Naturally I disagree with the whole idea of schools. I don't support that in the slightest. That is a major flaw then, that it speaks of improving schools at all, that is a weakness that it doesn't just speak of destroying them -- it may as well with the points given in 'what the school is' - it's like a list of how to make a not-school (where school is, you know, defined according to the characteristics of actual existing institutions)
Anyway, social development.. and movement (not in the climbing sense, just.. like.. as you interact you get a better sense of who you want to be around, so you move towards different people/arenas). I must insist on this, as much development in this area is needed by me.. I mean, it's perfectly fine to not know what is expected, that's not awfully important except when aiming to confound... but it's not okay to not know what you want to do or what the right thing for you to do in a situation is (as in, you can't get from point A to point B until you know what the hell point B is and where!)
d) emotions aren't summed up in language. That's dumb. Emotions aren't summed up at all, even by actions.

In particular, you may note his opposition to sentimentality, which IMO is rampant in public schools. In my judgement it's another way of being dry and dull -- emotionally so.. like someone who always exaggerates their responses, so you can't tell when they really mean something.

In general, all countries with any sort of mass-media are subject to an absurd degree of sentimentality on the whole -- you described, for instance, people who get really excited/sad/angry over the events depicted in a film or documentary but then do nothing about them. That's sentimentality, and currently, we could do with a lot less of it. If possible, I'd exterminate all non-indie media to that end (natural competition would also work better in indie media than commercial media).

Lastly, I look for trouble to stave off greater irrationalities (eating foolishly, fidgeting.)
It works so far, providing there are opportunities such as this.

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